Take a week and look at a real winners list from Warhammer: The Old World. Long live the Dark Elves!

This week I wanted to take a little break from ranking units. While theories and talks about what we think is good are nice, they don’t compare to the experience of doing things in the real world. So I thought we’d look at a few lists that have won actual events. First up, we’ll look at the recent Karl Franz Cup in Tokyo. That wasn’t a huge event, but it was a decent one-day event. We spoke to William Livingstone about his Dark Elf list that won the event. Let’s take a look

The list

Here is what William has to say about this list:

“So this list worked really well for me. The Bane 3 armor and the awesome crossbow the hero uses were a really incredible asset to the army. Units of Ironbreakers, Knights, Monsters, and Bloodthirsters tend to just crumble under fire. I think the Shadows unit also wiped out 20 Longbeards in two turns. The amount of shooting in the army also deals with lightly armored infantry.”

“For anything larger, I use a Dreadlord on a black dragon. It has two uses. First, it destroys a unit weakened by shots and reliably overruns the next target. Second, it is my anti-monster and also my shadow monster. In the tournament, it killed many… The Dreadlord fought with the executioner’s axe against the high elf wizard lord on a star dragon and his higher weapon skill meant that he won the fights.”

“One more thing I want to mention: The hero and his magic crossbow are particularly good against demons with a maximum potential AP of four. He has a base AP and the poison is also incredible. The most important magic item is rerolling all hits for a round. So 40 shots that hit on fours and reroll everything, plus the hero d3 plus one.”

You can see all of these things in the list. It is built around a powerful Dreadlord on a dragon. The core is taken up by various Dark Riders units. The really surprising aspect is a couple of units, one of them very large, of the Shades, which I haven’t seen much of recently.

How the Dark Elves played

The Karl Franz Cup was a one-day event with three rounds. It sounds like a lot of fun. Here’s what William had to say about his various matches:

“Okay, so in my first game I played against Dwarves. It was the Tower scenario. (Capture the monument.) He went first and his 25 long beards with the anti-shot protection were destroyed without contact, just by shots.

His 10 Ironbreakers were also wiped out by my 20 Shadows in a single turn by shots. Most of the Iron Dragons?? Also by the other Shadow unit and the Riders. Then, since he had no units to claim the monument with, my Dragon pounced on him to eat an Iron Dragon unit and a Rune Priest and claim the objective.

Game 2: Break Point against Daemons.
My hardest game due to the scenario. I killed the Bloodthirster quickly with shots, made a placement mistake and let a unit of Fleshhounds kill him. He had a block of Bloodletters and Daemonettes, three Juggernauts, a Demon Prince and some Fiends. It was a draw but I got almost the same result as my first game as I killed most of his army.

Game 3: Commitment to Meetings
Crucially, none of my units were stopped. A unit of Reavers and an Eagle were stopped for him. 3 units of 5 Reavers, Silver Helms, lots of Dragon Princes, Wizard Lord on Dragon, Frost Phoenix, 2 Eagles, he went first but could only cast two spells the whole game because he was stuck in combat after his Dragon Princes broke and I was able to do a rear attack on the Dragon with my Dragon breaking through his Princes. I was able to wipe everything out by turn 5.”

One interesting aspect that William brings up is how much of a difference the missions can make. I think it’s easy to get stuck in a routine if you’re only playing Meeting Engagement, and some of the other missions aren’t that different. However, both The Tower and Breakpoint have a pretty big impact on the game and change things up.

Thoughts on Williams List

Overall, I like this list. You can see that it has some good combos and synergies. Everything is approached with a specific goal in mind, which is a hallmark of a highly focused list. I also like that it innovates a bit and tries something new. Not only are the Dark Elves one of the statistically worst armies in the game right now, but they also do a lot of BS-based shooting. I haven’t seen that work particularly well. On top of that, I haven’t seen many people take large units of Shades (though I remember a time in 7th/8th edition when large units of them were a meta choice). It’s also a list with no rare choices!

While shooting with Shade doesn’t seem crazy at first, you can see how it adds up. The Razor standard makes it a bit more terrifying. Guiding Eye allows the entire unit (with 42-44 shots) to reroll hits, which is pretty awesome. You can even use the Sorceress to drop Word of Pain on a target to make it worse for them! However, William says she’s mainly there to give the dragon some fighting spirit, and that’s been crucial in some games.

The meta of the old world penetrates

While the list is innovative, you can also see the emerging meta shaping it. This list really ticks all the boxes. You have your big dragon, which you should almost absolutely take with you if possible. Then you have five skirmisher units. There is actually not a single upgraded unit in the army. Everything is fast and mobile. Most things can move freely in any direction and have great line of sight. In many ways, the Dark Elf list feels more like an AoS or 40K list than a WFB/TOW list. You see that in a lot of lists these days and I can’t say I like that trend. While it may thematically represent sneaky Dark Elf raiding parties, it’s not really what most of us want from the game. No blame on William here, because that’s what the game allows, and it’s not his fault at all.

Final thoughts on the Dark Elves

Overall, it’s a fun and solid list that does things a bit differently. It’s nice to see the Dark Elves winning events. Of course, I don’t know exactly how the whole game went, but I see a few weaknesses. The list relies heavily on BS-based shooting. I wonder how it would fare against a list that can stack a lot of shooting penalties. Also, he only has a single level 2 mage, although he says that wasn’t a problem. It seems that an enemy with some decent fireballs could wipe out the shadows and leave the army without their main unit.

You will also notice that the event was only 1750 points, which is not a usual size. I asked William what he would add to get to the usual 2000 points and he replied:

“Evolution increases my wizard’s level to level 4, adds some extra dark riders and 7 more shadows. I would seriously consider switching to combat magic to get shot rerolls of 1 against a unit. And the 5+ protection for my shadows would help against missile fire.”

So there you have it (although I think it’s better to stick with Dark Magic!). We can’t say how well the list will perform in larger games where the one unit of Shades has less impact, but it looks like it will work well nonetheless.

Anyway, a big thank you to William Livingstone for talking to me about the list and allowing us to write it. Any errors and mistakes are probably mine. Congratulations on the win!

Let us know what you think of this list in the comments below!

Abe is that rare thing, an Austin native who was born and raised here. Despite constantly moving, DC, Japan, etc., he always seems to find his way back eventually. Abe has decades of experience with a wide range of tabletop and RPG games, from historical games to Star Wars to D&D and 40K. He has contributed to BOLS almost since the beginning, back when he worked at and then owned a local game store. He used to be a huge fan of the Warhammer tournament scene, but he has mellowed with age and he now appreciates a good, casual match. He currently covers 40K tactics and lore, and all things Star Wars, with occasional touches on other topics as well. Abe mourns the loss of WFB to this day.

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