Hannah Einbinder had never really acted before she played Ava Daniels alongside Jean Smart’s Deborah Vance in Hacking. She is now a three-time Emmy nominee.
In this episode of The Last Laugh podcast, Einbinder talks about the overconfidence she brings to the role, as well as the stage personality she displays in her stellar stand-up debut. Everything must go at Max. She also talks about how she overcame the intimidation of acting with Jean Smart, comparing the generational difference between her characters to her relationship with her own mother (original Saturday Night Live actress Laraine Newman) and gives a taste of what fans can expect from a “badass” Ava in Season 4. And later, Einbinder shares her unfiltered thoughts on the “old shits” in comedy who complain that political correctness is stifling their craft.
“I think my stand-up persona was somehow born out of ambition,” Einbinder tells me. “This persona is everything I ever wanted to be.”
And, she adds, it’s been there since she first stepped on a stand-up stage.
“People often say that stand-up comedy is brave, but I disagree. I think it’s desperate,” says Einbinder. “I had to do it because I felt bad all the time. And I thought maybe this would help.” From the beginning, Einbinder used the stand-up stage as an “escape from the reality of being myself,” as she puts it.
“Now, thank God, I feel so much more comfortable being myself and enriching my life to the point where stand-up is just an add-on and not a survival mechanism,” she says, acknowledging how much her life has changed in just a few years.
Although she’s not even thirty yet, Einbinder has already had more success as a comedian than she could have imagined in her wildest dreams. And she feels ready for the next phase of her career. “29 is such a shitty age,” she jokes. “Can we just be 30? That’s how I feel. Let’s go!”
Below is an edited excerpt from our conversation. You can listen to the whole thing by after The Last Laugh To Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Googleor wherever you get your podcasts, and be the first to hear about new episodes when they’re released every Wednesday.
Her special is called Everything must gowhich goes back to the idea of burning the material you’ve been working on for so long. There’s this cliche about a band’s first album where you say everything you’ve worked on since you started making music goes into the first album, and by the second album you’re like, “What do I do now?” Are you in that mode now, trying to figure out what to do after burning all the material you’ve been working on since you started your career?
Yes that’s me.
And how is that?
Sad! (laughs) No, it’s great. It’s great to have a sore spot again. I own it and I love and appreciate that hour and all that material. I’m very, very, very proud of it. But, you know, some of those jokes I’ve done for years and years and years and years, every night and onstage. Even though I love that material and I’m proud of it, I’ll never say those words again and I don’t care. There’s no better feeling for me as a stand-up comedian than to be excited about a new part, a new section, a new line. The novelty is what makes me love this art form.
You talked about how Hacking influenced your audience, you were able to play bigger venues and it certainly got you more exposure. But did it also influence the content of your stand-up performance?
I think my comedic persona and the expression of my comedy as a stand-up comedian has always been conscious and very distinct. And even though I’ve settled into that role and become more comfortable in it over the years, I think that ultimately that form of expression has remained kind of constant. Being an actor and acting has increased my commitment to the choices I’ve made. Acting has just made it so much more intense that I’m now willing to scream and cry out loud – it’s just enriched my live performances so much.
We’ve talked about the confidence you felt when you first went on stage, and how it was kind of out of necessity. I wonder if that carried over to the first time you went up against Jean Smart as Deborah in a scene?
First of all, to Jean’s credit, she really makes an effort to make people feel comfortable. She doesn’t have an air of superiority. She doesn’t try to intimidate people. She’s very warm, and I think that helped me feel more comfortable and do my best work.
And then of course the scene with her in the first episode. You just have to go and scream at her and tell her how awful she is. Was that intimidating?
I would say that was intimidating. I mean, that was one of the audition scenes. So I spent a lot of time on that. It’s such an important scene to the tone of the show. And so I just wanted to make sure I got it right. We definitely move quickly on our show. But that was a scene that we spent a lot of time on, really perfecting.
The show is centered around the relationship between these two women in comedy who came at very different times in comedy, and I was curious if you could draw on anything or if there were any parallels between you and your mother (original SNL actress Laraine Newman), who came into comedy at a very different time. Was that ever something that crossed your mind in terms of the generation gap?
I mean, I think anyone who has older parents can take advantage of that. I think the kind of conversations that Ava and Deborah have about whatever, say a social issue that they disagree on, feel like the kind of conversations you have with a parent who’s looking at the issue from a different time and a different perspective. But I think as far as my mom goes, she’s pretty liberal and left-leaning.
Not as much as Deborah?
No, my mom is from LA. She’s a liberal Jew who is, well, cool. So, yeah, I think Deborah is more of a – I don’t even know what to call her political views. I think she’s a Democrat, but with some social views that are maybe more conservative.
She’s a Democrat who maybe voted for Reagan?
Yes, yes, yes, probably because they were friends. Yes.
There were so many great episodes of Hacking this last season. The Berkeley episode (“Yes, And”) was a highlight of the season in my opinion, and not just because I live in Berkeley.
Yes, this episode tackles a topic that we always talk about whether we like it or not, which is the changing cultural standards in comedy. And I thought the writers did a really wonderful job of tackling that.
Yes, this is something that has been touched on in some ways before on the show, but this is the first time I felt like you guys really tackled the whole cancel culture thing head on.
I think that’s something we—(Hacking Creator) Paul W. Downs, Jen (Statsky), Lucia (Aniello) – people ask us about that a lot, about political correctness and comedy, so we talk about it a lot. And we agree on that. So I definitely didn’t influence their writing about it, but we all just agree and talk about it.
Yes, it reminded me of the time when Paul and Lucia another podcast at when Jerry Seinfeld made his comments about the “extreme left” doing comedy. And I think Hackinghas rightly been cited as a counterexample to this idea, so I was curious if you had any thoughts on this specifically regarding Seinfeld’s comments or just the idea that somehow we can’t do funny comedy anymore.
Yeah, it’s ridiculous. You just have to be smart. If marginalized groups have heard every joke at their expense, it’s not because they can’t take jokes, it’s because they’re sick of hearing the trite, redundant, if you will, crap that’s simple and easy to get. I don’t think anyone I know – or I can only speak from my experience as a queer and a woman and a Jew – I actually have no problem with jokes at my expense or at the expense of groups I’m part of, if the joke is smart. I really don’t. I think everyone, especially people from marginalized groups, need to laugh to keep from crying and need to laugh at themselves. And we do. We just demand better material. And I think a lot of stand-up comedians have a really hardened point of view. That’s an inherent trait of a comedian, to be like, “This is what I think, and everyone’s paying to hear what I think, so I’m the arbiter of what’s going on!” That’s that egomaniacal personality type. They don’t want to be told they’re wrong, and they don’t want to have to waver and change when their work is built on having a fixed perspective on something.
I would be so embarrassed to be seen that way. It’s so obvious when someone gets defensive and blames whatever words come to mind – the politically correct, woke left-wing mob or whatever – oh my god, you should be so ashamed of yourself because we all see that you’re scared and you’re hurting and you don’t want to be wrong and you don’t want to be labeled a bad person. Nobody wants to feel like a bad person. So when you call someone out on something and they get defensive, it just shows some kind of lack of development. People who are self-reflective can say, “I wonder if they’re right? Maybe I’m wrong. I can learn from that.” I actually find that more impressive. Also, I think people who are older are more hardened. So I’m not holding my breath for these old motherfuckers who want to blame whatever they want instead of looking within.
Listen to the episode now and Follow The Last Laugh To Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Googleor wherever you get your podcasts to be the first to hear new episodes when they are released every Wednesday.
